TMIT 32: Cliff Weitzman, CEO of Speechify, on How Family Builds Greatness

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I think that one thing that my
parents did that was really

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exceptional is they maximize the
surface area for serendipity for

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us by exposing us to different
things.

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Welcome to The Most Important
Thing.

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I'm Greg here with Danielle.
Hi.

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And today we have a very special
episode with our friend Cliff

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Weitzman, the founder and CEO of
Speechify.

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Speechify is incredible.
It's a text to speech app that I

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use all the time.
And Cliff actually started

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Speechify because of his
dyslexia.

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Cliff is the real deal.
He's probably the only Forbes,

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the 30 under 30 CEO that can do
a standing backflip.

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And he's just such a great dude.
I mean, as you'll see, his

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energy is infectious.
He has so many great stories to

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tell.
He's also the first born of a

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family of five exceptional
humans.

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This was a fantastic
conversation about a family

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worth studying, wasn't it?
Totally.

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Cliff had so many great stories
about his family, not just their

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triumphs, but also the life that
they've built together.

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I loved hearing that two of his
siblings actually work with him

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at Speechify.
Yeah, I was aware of his journey

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with dyslexia and speechify, but
I didn't realize until this

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conversation.
That's so much of what makes

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Cliff.
Cliff is his family.

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Yeah, and that's really what
we're studying, which is so

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cool.
So it was a beautiful

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conversation.
And certainly stay tuned to the

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very end to listen to the
quirkiest family tradition that

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we've heard of yet.
Yeah.

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So please enjoy this
conversation with Cliff

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Weitzman.
Thank you for doing this.

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Again, my pleasure.
Thanks for coming out.

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This is fun for.
Me.

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It's a lot of fun.
Yeah, this is great, man.

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I mean, do you remember it was
like the Founders conference,

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Austin and we talked for like 3
hours just about just everything

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from like teenage years on.
It was like what the slope of an

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individual looks like and how
mentors can gravitate towards

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individuals with really high
slopes at a young age, basically

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because it's like non
threatening, you know, it's like

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kind of adorable, kind of
reminds them of themselves when

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they were a kid.
And it sounds like you've had a

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lot of that, which is amazing.
But I didn't realize until we

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decided to record this episode
that the influence that really

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kind of shows through is this
family that we're so blessed to

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have.
It sounds like like how to tell

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me more about just what being a
Weitzman meant to you growing

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up.
I don't think that there was a

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chronicle being a Weitzman.
It was more so I was lucky to

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have and still have the two best
parents anyone could ever ask

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for and also the, like, most
incredible four siblings anyone

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can have.
And we grew up in a town in

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Israel called Anana, about 20
minutes north of Tel Aviv.

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Obviously, we grew up speaking
Hebrew, not English.

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And as a kid, I just really
admired my dad and my mom.

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And they were very fair.
They're very intellectually

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curious.
And they treated us like adults.

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So like, when they would make
big decisions, like we'd be

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pulled into the decisions and we
knew what was happening.

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And there was a lot of kids.
And I think we just grew up with

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a lot of unconditional love.
And so we'd like, push the

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couches back every Friday and
Saturday and have a dance party.

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And, you know, our parents just
really cared about us.

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And that was like very clear.
And at the same time, there was

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like, my parents were very much
not helicopter parents or like

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Tiger mom.
My parents did not look at my

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report cards at all.
There wasn't too much fuss, but

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I think that we grew up with
just like really solid

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principles in general.
Yeah, now that's awesome.

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I mean, before we started
talking about this family

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culture and family leadership it
journey that Danielle and I are

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on, had this occurred to you
like through your that through

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your story that that you maybe
had something that other people

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didn't or?
Yes, it was very obvious that we

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had a that.
I mean, I always felt very

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grateful and very fortunate to
have been born into my family,

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right?
I didn't do anything to end up

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in the situation.
I just was fortunate because you

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read books, you see shows, you
see movies, you interact with

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your friends, and I don't know
what age people realize that

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their family is.
What's the Dostoevsky quote?

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All happy families are the same,
but all unhappy families are

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unhappy in a different way.
And we just have a very happy

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family.
I would say that also

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genetically, my siblings, I'm
going to exclude myself in this

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list, are very, very gifted.
So Tyler started coding when he

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was 7, building websites.
He taught himself assembly when

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he was 9 to hack video games.
And like, we moved to the US, we

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met kids who were using his
hacks.

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He built 47 iPhone apps when he
was in high school.

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When he was 11, we showed up in
the United States.

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I didn't speak English.
He barely spoke English.

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But within a year, he was
valedictorian of the school.

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And it's like a really good
middle school.

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And the next year, he skipped
the year of math and he skipped

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the year of Spanish next to kids
who have been taking Spanish for

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seven years.
And then my mom found this

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really great Community College
called College of Marin near

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where we grew up.
And he enrolled in a computer

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science class.
And he taught the class as an 11

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year old and like would teach
the other adult students how to

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do object oriented programming.
And there was this very funny

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scene.
We love Costco.

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And he found the professor of
the class in a Costco aisle and

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he just like, pinned him down
and was like, why did you give

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me an A on this assignment, not
an A+.

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And like, he would not let go
until the professor basically

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admitted that there was no
reason why he should not have

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received the A+ on this
assignment.

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And I'm pretty sure the
professor changed the grade.

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So he skipped 4 1/2 years in
math when he was in high school.

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He skipped, I think five years
of college level computer

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science in high school.
And then he did Stanford

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undergrad in math and then his
masters in AI Stanford.

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My sister Alex speaks 7
languages fluently.

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She also did Exeter and then
Stanford undergrad and then

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Stanford masters in AI.
And like, I couldn't figure out

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how to spell my last name, mind
you, during like all this time.

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And, and so I think that one
thing that my parents did that

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was really exceptional is they
maximize the surface area for

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serendipity for us by exposing
us to different things.

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So like my mom loved riding
horses.

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And so I, you know, we didn't
have a lot of money.

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And so like horseback riding is
very expensive, but I found like

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I had one horseback riding
class, but I loved it.

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And so I convinced the woman who
owned the ranch that if I came

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and mucked out the stables, I
could ride in the end of the

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day.
And so I like every chance I

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got, I'd go and do this.
Or, you know, in, in Israel,

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gymnastics was pretty
affordable, but in the US it was

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very expensive.
But by that point, I was really

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into gymnastics.
So I just learned how to do more

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gymnastics off of YouTube.
And then eventually I found a

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rec center that would let me
come for free if I like pass a

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certain level.
So I just like trained it on

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past that level and I, I can go
and I needed to bike.

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I think like 3-4 miles is like a
13 year olds to to school, but

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also the other way to go to this
gymnastics gym.

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So I would like to go from
school to this gymnastics Game 6

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miles.
And so we just had a lot of like

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independence and our parents
encouraged us to just go and

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find what we liked and go and do
it.

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And they didn't force us into
anything, but we were just very,

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very motivated, I guess, to self
actualize.

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And so I think that the culture
that they built also came

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because you have a lot of
interactions between the

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siblings, right?
So let's say Tyler and I would

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get in a fight.
My dad would be the arbitrator

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of the fight at the end of the
day and and the judge, but he

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was very good at communicating.
And I was 90% of the time found

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to be at fault in these
arguments.

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But my dad would explain why.
And so I was not frustrated that

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I was at fault because I
understood why and it was done

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in a way that was not illogical
or random.

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Like I, I got it.
And I think that resulted in

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very strong bonds and
relationships between me and the

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rest of my siblings.
I think the other thing that is

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the case is, you know, when
you're in high school and

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there's a group project and
like, one person's actually

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doing the project and like,
three people are coasting.

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Like we got to be lucky in the
sense that of the five kids in

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my family, everyone's quite
competent.

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And Tyler now works with me on
Speechify.

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Geffen now works with me on
Speechify.

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But it took me many years to get
Tyler to agree to work with me

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because he was just so ahead of
me in everything that we were

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doing.
And I remember we had this

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really great call.
I would have been like 24.

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He's like Cliff, you know, over
the last, like a year, every

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time we have a disagreement,
either you convince me or I

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convince you.
We do it pretty fast and like

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you just make a lot of really
good decisions.

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And Tyler and I realized at that
point that our values were

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extremely aligned.
We have the same values.

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And part of that, a lot of that
comes from having the same

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parents and growing up with the
same family.

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But also as we went to in our
own walkabouts in life, going to

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different schools, studying
different topics, reading

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different books, doing different
experiments of having both

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really high bias towards action.
We just came to the same

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conclusion about conclusions
about the world and having a

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very similar world view.
But there were many times where

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we didn't have the same world
view.

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And Tyler came up with this
really nice framework, which is

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when you're a noob, like a
beginner at a topic, there's

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varying approaches.
The more expert you are at a

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topic, you start conversion to
the same systems.

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And so as we both got really
good at building products, as we

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both got really good at growth,
as we both got really good at

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physical training, we ended up
having the same systems.

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But for systems where we were
both noobs, we had completely

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different approaches that were
tailors towards our personal

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skill sets, right?
Tyler is more technical than I

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am.
I may be slightly better with

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people.
And then the other framework he

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came up with, it was really
good, Is that relationships are

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exponential.
So your relationship with your

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family, your best friend, your
close friends, and then

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acquaintances, each concentric
circle is exponentially more

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important the tighter it is to
you.

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So for example, some decisions
we have to make, For example, do

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we live in San Francisco or do
we live in Palo Alto, where Palo

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Alto is next to Stanford?
We have a lot of friends there.

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We have like a middle amount of
friends in San Francisco, but

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our parents lived in Marin,
which is north of San Francisco.

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And we're like, well, let's live
in San Francisco because it

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keeps us closer to our parents
and to our siblings.

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And that matters to us more than
some of the other relationships.

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So I think that having a partner
through life in that way is

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really powerful.
And even now I'm always looking

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for, you mentioned mentors.
I'm always looking for someone

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who I can learn from.
But the person that I learned

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from the most is Tyler.
It's my brother who's like 20

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months younger than me.
And so I think that there was

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never a situation where our
parents sat down and we're like,

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here is the principles of the
family and here is the culture

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that we're trying to set.
But we learned a lot from a

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observing them B, even more So
what they talked to us about,

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right?
My dad would take me on walks

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when I was 8 and he talked to me
about here's why you would want

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to take out a loan if you're
buying real estate.

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Here's the difference between
mutual fund and a hedge fund.

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Here's how the public stock
market works.

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And I just ate it all up.
I thought it was fascinating.

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00:11:37,680 --> 00:11:40,240
Here's why the sky is blue.
Here's how you know,

227
00:11:40,600 --> 00:11:43,920
electricity, electricity and
magnetism works like the the

228
00:11:43,920 --> 00:11:46,920
high level.
And I just found it fascinating.

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00:11:46,920 --> 00:11:48,960
And I, I wanted to maximize the
time I'm going to spend with my

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00:11:48,960 --> 00:11:52,440
dad doing these types of walks.
And so I think that seeing my

231
00:11:52,440 --> 00:11:55,520
parents, being intellectually
curious, and then talking to me

232
00:11:55,520 --> 00:12:00,000
like an adult explaining things
made me see the world or be

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00:12:00,000 --> 00:12:02,480
awakened in a way that otherwise
I would not have had the chance

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00:12:02,480 --> 00:12:06,240
to.
Yeah, we, we're hearing that a

235
00:12:06,240 --> 00:12:09,400
lot on this journey, right?
But it, every story is unique

236
00:12:09,400 --> 00:12:13,000
in, in a beautiful way.
And it's beautiful how you have

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00:12:13,240 --> 00:12:16,760
have a growth mindset enough to
let the younger brother be such

238
00:12:16,760 --> 00:12:19,960
an influence on you.
It's very easy when your younger

239
00:12:19,960 --> 00:12:21,640
brother is a machine.
Well, sure.

240
00:12:22,320 --> 00:12:26,400
But you know, they what, as we
just learned in our latest

241
00:12:26,400 --> 00:12:29,240
exploration of fix and growth
mindset, one thing that can

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00:12:29,400 --> 00:12:32,760
really create, that can be a
trigger for a fixed mindset is

243
00:12:32,760 --> 00:12:35,960
exactly that situation where
it's somebody that you know so

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00:12:35,960 --> 00:12:38,840
well where you discount the work
that they do.

245
00:12:39,040 --> 00:12:41,920
You're like, I could have done
that too if I didn't have

246
00:12:41,920 --> 00:12:44,520
dyslexia or something like that,
you know?

247
00:12:44,960 --> 00:12:46,440
So then let me tell you 2
stories.

248
00:12:48,280 --> 00:12:56,040
One good story is one day Tyler
came to my dad, he was like 4,

249
00:12:57,680 --> 00:13:02,720
and he had this dry erase
multiplication tables and it was

250
00:13:02,720 --> 00:13:05,000
solved.
And my dad had bought it for me

251
00:13:05,000 --> 00:13:06,800
because he wanted me to succeed
in maths.

252
00:13:07,520 --> 00:13:09,400
And my dad was like, wow, Cliff
did this.

253
00:13:09,400 --> 00:13:10,720
You wanted to show me what
Cliff's dad?

254
00:13:10,960 --> 00:13:13,200
He's like, no, no, I did it.
What do you mean?

255
00:13:13,240 --> 00:13:16,080
You, you haven't even learned
multiplication.

256
00:13:16,480 --> 00:13:18,800
He's like, how did you do it?
He's like, I counted.

257
00:13:22,720 --> 00:13:24,520
And that's the point where
they're like, all right, there's

258
00:13:24,520 --> 00:13:26,080
something's very special about
this kid.

259
00:13:28,400 --> 00:13:31,280
And I was always very precocious
when it came to language, right?

260
00:13:31,720 --> 00:13:33,840
I have a very good auditory
memory.

261
00:13:33,840 --> 00:13:36,200
So if I hear a song, I instantly
remember the lyrics.

262
00:13:36,640 --> 00:13:40,000
And I would watch like, Bible
stories.

263
00:13:40,000 --> 00:13:41,480
I don't know.
There were Bible story cartoons

264
00:13:41,480 --> 00:13:44,520
on TV, so I knew Bible stories
really well, and I had the

265
00:13:44,680 --> 00:13:47,360
vocabulary in Hebrew.
That was very unusual of a kid

266
00:13:47,360 --> 00:13:52,840
my age, but I was not nearly as
technical.

267
00:13:52,840 --> 00:13:55,760
Tyler learned how to touch type
in English at 140 words per

268
00:13:55,760 --> 00:13:57,320
minute before he knew how to
speak English.

269
00:13:57,600 --> 00:14:00,280
I just realized this is the
circle and this is the X and he

270
00:14:00,280 --> 00:14:03,920
just nearly figured it out.
But great example.

271
00:14:03,920 --> 00:14:06,200
So my dad would be like, all
right, I will pay you guys 10

272
00:14:06,200 --> 00:14:10,320
shekels, which is like 1/4 if
you learn how to touch type

273
00:14:10,720 --> 00:14:12,880
above 60 words per minute
because he learned how to touch

274
00:14:12,880 --> 00:14:14,360
type later and he wanted us to
learn how to touch type.

275
00:14:14,360 --> 00:14:16,280
So we learn how to touch type in
Hebrew, then we learn how to

276
00:14:16,280 --> 00:14:18,800
touch type in English.
And I remember him offering me

277
00:14:18,800 --> 00:14:21,680
half a shekel.
So again, we're talking like

278
00:14:21,840 --> 00:14:25,680
pennies to swim a lap.
And so I could swim up to 200

279
00:14:25,680 --> 00:14:27,800
laps and get the money.
So I had like really worth the

280
00:14:27,800 --> 00:14:32,120
swimming laps and he'd pay US10
shekels for reading a book, 2

281
00:14:32,120 --> 00:14:34,840
1/2 dollars.
I was really motivated to, to

282
00:14:34,840 --> 00:14:38,160
read books and you know, these
type of challenges were amazing

283
00:14:38,240 --> 00:14:42,160
for me and my my best friend
Valentin, his dad did very

284
00:14:42,160 --> 00:14:43,640
similar stuff.
He'd like have him read the Wall

285
00:14:43,640 --> 00:14:46,240
Street Journal article and then
write a one page summary about

286
00:14:46,240 --> 00:14:47,360
it.
And then like run a mile and

287
00:14:47,360 --> 00:14:48,640
then he'd get like a certain
reward.

288
00:14:48,880 --> 00:14:50,480
He'd like give him another
reward if he could juggle a

289
00:14:50,480 --> 00:14:52,000
soccer ball for like 100
juggles.

290
00:14:52,720 --> 00:14:54,760
And so I think that these types
of challenges coming from your

291
00:14:54,760 --> 00:14:56,960
dad, coming from your mom,
always work really, really well

292
00:14:56,960 --> 00:14:58,800
for kids, at least for me, they
did.

293
00:15:00,360 --> 00:15:06,440
And with Tyler, it was just the
case that he, in a not

294
00:15:06,440 --> 00:15:11,160
aggressive way, was just so
interested in the things that he

295
00:15:11,160 --> 00:15:14,720
was interested in and flourished
on his own that it was very

296
00:15:14,720 --> 00:15:18,040
inspiring.
And I remember when he was in

297
00:15:18,040 --> 00:15:22,480
8th grade, he made $100 in one
day of people downloading an app

298
00:15:22,720 --> 00:15:24,240
that he made called Risk Dice
Shaker.

299
00:15:24,240 --> 00:15:27,800
It's like, you know, the game
Risk, He built a digital dice

300
00:15:27,800 --> 00:15:30,360
for it.
And we shared the same room and

301
00:15:30,360 --> 00:15:32,880
he had his computer that he made
his own money to buy this

302
00:15:32,880 --> 00:15:36,120
computer.
And I was like, wow, he made

303
00:15:36,120 --> 00:15:38,680
money my home while he slept off
of his iPhone app.

304
00:15:39,120 --> 00:15:42,720
You can do that.
And so the second and like, it's

305
00:15:42,720 --> 00:15:46,160
very different to see someone
that you know, do it, especially

306
00:15:46,160 --> 00:15:49,280
someone who's living in your
room, than to hear the Mark

307
00:15:49,320 --> 00:15:52,840
Zuckerberg has done it because
Mark Zuckerberg, you're like, I

308
00:15:52,840 --> 00:15:54,440
don't know.
He could be an alien, right?

309
00:15:54,440 --> 00:15:57,480
Maybe he has like a level of
intelligence that I cannot even

310
00:15:57,480 --> 00:16:00,960
fathom.
And Tyler is till this day the

311
00:16:00,960 --> 00:16:02,520
smartest person that I have ever
met.

312
00:16:02,960 --> 00:16:05,320
No one at Brown, no one at
Stanford, no one at Harvard, no

313
00:16:05,320 --> 00:16:08,800
one 430 into 30 who I've met is
even close to his level of being

314
00:16:08,800 --> 00:16:12,080
able to learn stuff.
No founder I've met in another

315
00:16:12,080 --> 00:16:17,480
company, but I share half his
DNAI know him from zero.

316
00:16:17,960 --> 00:16:20,520
And I'm not afraid of his
intellect because I understand

317
00:16:20,520 --> 00:16:23,280
him perfectly.
And I'm like, great, if he could

318
00:16:23,280 --> 00:16:25,480
do it, I could do it too.
It might take me longer.

319
00:16:25,840 --> 00:16:27,720
It definitely will take me
longer, but I know I could.

320
00:16:27,800 --> 00:16:29,440
I could do it.
Have you ever watched the movie

321
00:16:29,440 --> 00:16:30,600
Gattaca?
No.

322
00:16:31,120 --> 00:16:32,880
Great movie about genetic
engineering.

323
00:16:32,880 --> 00:16:37,080
So there's two twins and one is
genetically engineered and the

324
00:16:37,080 --> 00:16:40,640
other is not.
And obviously the genetically

325
00:16:40,640 --> 00:16:43,040
engineered 1 is taller,
stronger, smarter, everything is

326
00:16:43,040 --> 00:16:44,960
better.
And they play this game called

327
00:16:44,960 --> 00:16:49,040
chicken which is the only game
where the not genetically

328
00:16:49,040 --> 00:16:52,680
engineered twin wins.
And so an example in the game

329
00:16:52,680 --> 00:16:55,240
chicken is they go to the ocean
and they swim into the ocean and

330
00:16:55,240 --> 00:17:00,960
they see who turns around 1st
and the younger brother, sorry,

331
00:17:01,000 --> 00:17:03,280
the older brother by a couple of
minutes, who is not genetically

332
00:17:03,280 --> 00:17:06,800
engineer is crazy and will swim
further to the degree that is

333
00:17:06,800 --> 00:17:12,079
dangerous.
And so that kid is not smarter.

334
00:17:12,079 --> 00:17:16,000
He's not stronger, but he has
maybe stronger human spirit,

335
00:17:16,599 --> 00:17:19,920
just doesn't give up.
So my favorite quote is you

336
00:17:19,920 --> 00:17:25,240
cannot fail unless you quit.
And I think that that is the

337
00:17:25,240 --> 00:17:28,720
tool, the shield that I picked
up along the way to say, hey, it

338
00:17:28,720 --> 00:17:29,880
might take me a little bit
longer.

339
00:17:30,240 --> 00:17:31,920
I know I can get there.
I have the belief.

340
00:17:31,920 --> 00:17:33,880
So I'm just not going to quit
until I get it.

341
00:17:35,040 --> 00:17:38,440
And so I like people to often
talk about IQ, intelligence

342
00:17:38,440 --> 00:17:40,160
quotient or EQ, emotional
tolerance.

343
00:17:40,520 --> 00:17:43,320
And I think that the thing that
actually yields the biggest

344
00:17:43,320 --> 00:17:45,760
results in the long term is AQ
adversity quotient.

345
00:17:46,680 --> 00:17:49,480
How good are you when things get
really hard and you know, how

346
00:17:49,480 --> 00:17:52,720
much energy and momentum and
perseverance do you put to not

347
00:17:52,720 --> 00:17:55,840
stopping?
And that's maybe the tool that I

348
00:17:55,840 --> 00:17:57,600
got really good at along the
way.

349
00:17:58,040 --> 00:18:03,880
That was was my version of
matching Tyler's level of

350
00:18:05,760 --> 00:18:09,520
technical ability.
Yeah, if Tyler were here right

351
00:18:09,520 --> 00:18:12,760
now, what do you think he would
say as far as how you have

352
00:18:12,760 --> 00:18:16,880
mentored him throughout?
Well, he would bashfully bat

353
00:18:16,880 --> 00:18:25,520
away my compliments and I think
that he would say that the

354
00:18:25,520 --> 00:18:29,840
things that Cliff has that are
very good.

355
00:18:29,840 --> 00:18:31,320
I think the first one he would
say is strategy.

356
00:18:31,680 --> 00:18:34,360
So I'm very good at board games.
You're like, Cliff is like

357
00:18:34,360 --> 00:18:37,520
ridiculous is strategy.
And a lot of it he'll say is

358
00:18:37,520 --> 00:18:41,200
because of Cliff reads so much.
So I listened to two audio books

359
00:18:41,200 --> 00:18:45,200
a week every week since I was
14, so 100 books a year, very

360
00:18:45,200 --> 00:18:47,400
wide array and I have a very
good auditory memory.

361
00:18:48,280 --> 00:18:50,080
And so my pattern recognition is
really, really strong.

362
00:18:51,440 --> 00:18:54,600
The second thing he would he
would say is Cliff dreams very

363
00:18:54,600 --> 00:18:56,680
big and can paint like very
vivid visions.

364
00:18:57,000 --> 00:18:59,880
And he's excellent at recruiting
people to his wild escapades.

365
00:18:59,880 --> 00:19:02,680
And so one of the benefits of
being the oldest of five kids is

366
00:19:02,680 --> 00:19:04,840
you get training and being a
leader from the time that you

367
00:19:04,840 --> 00:19:07,840
are a baby.
And so that is something that

368
00:19:07,840 --> 00:19:11,240
kind of came through.
And I'm very not susceptible to

369
00:19:11,240 --> 00:19:14,720
peer pressure.
And so, you know, I'm a little

370
00:19:14,720 --> 00:19:16,440
hellion marching to his own drum
very often.

371
00:19:16,480 --> 00:19:18,680
Say more about that.
Not susceptible to peer

372
00:19:18,680 --> 00:19:22,080
pressure.
Oh man, like so I don't drink, I

373
00:19:22,080 --> 00:19:23,560
don't smoke, never been high,
never been drunk.

374
00:19:24,640 --> 00:19:29,800
I like, could not make friends
in elementary school and really

375
00:19:29,800 --> 00:19:31,480
struggled in middle school and
high school from this regard.

376
00:19:31,760 --> 00:19:37,040
Like I kind of could, but like I
just didn't jive with other kids

377
00:19:37,040 --> 00:19:40,360
and I was not willing to change
things that I thought were

378
00:19:40,360 --> 00:19:42,840
important in order to
assimilate.

379
00:19:44,080 --> 00:19:47,400
I also faced moving from like
Israeli culture to American

380
00:19:47,400 --> 00:19:50,480
culture and I just like studied
how to win friends and influence

381
00:19:50,480 --> 00:19:54,600
people and just like really try
to understand how do you make

382
00:19:54,600 --> 00:19:58,160
friends.
And then I got to Brown and my

383
00:19:58,160 --> 00:20:01,560
cheeks start to hurt for smiling
so much because I finally found

384
00:20:01,560 --> 00:20:03,280
my people.
Everyone was interested during

385
00:20:03,360 --> 00:20:06,960
that.
Time where you're struggling.

386
00:20:07,080 --> 00:20:13,040
So I can relate to watching a
child struggle and think that

387
00:20:13,040 --> 00:20:16,720
they have no friends. 1 I had
that growing up at certain

388
00:20:16,720 --> 00:20:20,200
points, but now one of our kids
also feels like she doesn't.

389
00:20:20,480 --> 00:20:22,080
And it's really a factor of a
small school.

390
00:20:22,080 --> 00:20:23,240
But that's neither here nor
there.

391
00:20:23,240 --> 00:20:26,240
Yeah.
How did you, how did you feel

392
00:20:26,240 --> 00:20:30,040
supported during that time?
Because you, you once you found

393
00:20:30,040 --> 00:20:33,760
your place at Brown and I, I had
a similar experience in college

394
00:20:33,760 --> 00:20:35,920
as well.
But like, once you find your

395
00:20:35,920 --> 00:20:40,040
place, everything's OK.
But we, we kind of tend to gloss

396
00:20:40,040 --> 00:20:43,720
over all of those years when
things did not feel OK.

397
00:20:44,160 --> 00:20:45,880
So like, what does support look
like?

398
00:20:45,880 --> 00:20:47,680
What does it look like in terms
of support?

399
00:20:48,120 --> 00:20:52,400
So I I think one of the peaks of
it would have been like 6.

400
00:20:52,840 --> 00:20:56,240
I, I wrote a song in Hebrew
called Andy Javelin Mazelotov,

401
00:20:56,280 --> 00:20:58,880
which means I don't have any
friends and that's not good.

402
00:20:59,760 --> 00:21:02,200
When I sang this to my parents,
that was adorable.

403
00:21:03,720 --> 00:21:13,720
And I can't tell you where my
sense of belief in myself, of

404
00:21:13,720 --> 00:21:15,720
confidence came from, but it's
always been there.

405
00:21:16,160 --> 00:21:17,400
And I think that that's the
thing.

406
00:21:17,400 --> 00:21:21,520
I could always hang my hat on.
Like I didn't think for a second

407
00:21:21,920 --> 00:21:23,600
that I was less than or not good
enough.

408
00:21:24,120 --> 00:21:27,960
And it's it's because it just
got so much unconditional love

409
00:21:27,960 --> 00:21:29,920
for my family, right?
We're a very physical family.

410
00:21:29,920 --> 00:21:33,400
We'll hug, we'll kiss, we'll
dogpile, we'll dance, we'll

411
00:21:33,400 --> 00:21:37,200
sing.
You know, either it comes from

412
00:21:37,200 --> 00:21:39,600
my parents or my parents would
be like, oh, you know, Geffen is

413
00:21:39,600 --> 00:21:40,840
sad.
Cliff go dance with her.

414
00:21:40,840 --> 00:21:42,760
Cliff go, you know, give her
attention, pick her up,

415
00:21:42,760 --> 00:21:44,600
whatever.
So like, it was very encouraged

416
00:21:44,600 --> 00:21:47,560
by my parents.
The second thing is I had a

417
00:21:47,560 --> 00:21:50,080
backstop where if I wasn't
friends with kids in my school,

418
00:21:50,080 --> 00:21:51,520
I was still friends with my
siblings.

419
00:21:52,000 --> 00:21:54,040
And like, they had the same
values as me and they were

420
00:21:54,040 --> 00:21:56,520
interesting and interested and
they they were persevering and

421
00:21:56,520 --> 00:21:59,040
they, you know, all these
things, mind you, very

422
00:21:59,040 --> 00:22:04,320
intellectually bent for the 1st
20 years of our lives.

423
00:22:04,800 --> 00:22:08,640
And only around 20 years in do
we become also like athletically

424
00:22:08,640 --> 00:22:11,480
inclined, right?
I think that if you switched it

425
00:22:11,480 --> 00:22:13,760
and we were more athletically
inclined earlier on, we probably

426
00:22:13,760 --> 00:22:15,520
would have had an easier time
making friends when we were

427
00:22:15,520 --> 00:22:21,600
younger.
And so 1 is like, it's very

428
00:22:21,600 --> 00:22:24,640
different when you have five
siblings as opposed to when

429
00:22:24,640 --> 00:22:29,960
you're a single child.
It's also different because I, I

430
00:22:29,960 --> 00:22:33,880
think I was in 10 different
schools before I was 16.

431
00:22:34,520 --> 00:22:37,200
So I and, and that was a great
thing for me.

432
00:22:37,200 --> 00:22:39,040
I benefited from it.
I remember when my parents

433
00:22:39,040 --> 00:22:40,760
wanted to move us to the United
States through it, and they

434
00:22:40,760 --> 00:22:45,520
said, hey, if you read or if you
write a book in Hebrew, 7

435
00:22:45,520 --> 00:22:47,200
million people can read it.
If you do it in English, 7

436
00:22:47,200 --> 00:22:49,120
billion.
Can we think it would be great

437
00:22:49,160 --> 00:22:52,280
for us to have an adventure and
try to move to the US?

438
00:22:52,320 --> 00:22:53,640
Would you guys be interested in
doing that?

439
00:22:53,640 --> 00:22:55,120
And we're like, yeah, let's go
on an adventure.

440
00:22:55,120 --> 00:22:57,440
Like we wanted to go, but we
were bought in.

441
00:22:57,440 --> 00:23:01,400
It didn't happen to us.
We decided we would do it

442
00:23:02,160 --> 00:23:04,920
alongside my parents.
And that, I think, made for a

443
00:23:04,920 --> 00:23:07,520
much different experience.
And it made me very motivated.

444
00:23:07,920 --> 00:23:10,320
I mean, for sure, we talk about
that a lot, like the agency and

445
00:23:10,320 --> 00:23:13,280
autonomy given to the children.
It sounds like your family

446
00:23:13,280 --> 00:23:18,040
really fostered this family as a
team vibe as opposed to like

447
00:23:18,040 --> 00:23:21,000
maybe the parents were giving
you the idea kind of throwing

448
00:23:21,000 --> 00:23:24,000
the ball in the air, but really
making sure that you were bought

449
00:23:24,000 --> 00:23:26,160
in.
And I love this idea of an

450
00:23:26,160 --> 00:23:30,080
adventure because this year when
we traveled in August, we did

451
00:23:30,080 --> 00:23:33,280
like a two week family
adventure, not a vacation.

452
00:23:33,640 --> 00:23:36,400
Because the truth is, like when
we're all together, it's not a

453
00:23:36,400 --> 00:23:39,240
time to go sit on the beach and
relax for us, it's actually a

454
00:23:39,240 --> 00:23:43,440
time to go on new excursions,
uncharted territory.

455
00:23:43,440 --> 00:23:47,200
So I love that idea that they
had the foresight to frame it to

456
00:23:47,200 --> 00:23:50,880
you as an adventure and to
really ask for your buy in.

457
00:23:51,120 --> 00:23:52,400
Correct.
Yeah, exactly.

458
00:23:52,480 --> 00:23:54,040
That's huge.
And they created a situation

459
00:23:54,040 --> 00:23:56,920
where we wanted to buy in.
Yeah, I'm trying to think if

460
00:23:56,920 --> 00:23:59,840
there was a situation where they
tried to get us to get involved

461
00:23:59,840 --> 00:24:02,560
with something and that we gave
resistance and didn't want to do

462
00:24:02,560 --> 00:24:04,680
it and actually can't remember
1.

463
00:24:04,760 --> 00:24:06,880
Sounds like there were great
storytellers like From.

464
00:24:06,880 --> 00:24:09,960
One very good.
Storytellers, foresight to tell

465
00:24:09,960 --> 00:24:13,360
you about the 7,000,000 versus 7
billion people being able to

466
00:24:13,360 --> 00:24:15,760
read your book.
I mean, that's what I want to

467
00:24:15,760 --> 00:24:19,160
take away, Greg, because I feel
like it is so thoughtful and,

468
00:24:19,240 --> 00:24:21,680
and it seems like that may be
something you got from your

469
00:24:21,680 --> 00:24:25,480
parents, your ability to craft
this vision and to have people

470
00:24:25,520 --> 00:24:26,720
follow you.
Absolutely.

471
00:24:26,960 --> 00:24:29,000
And I think that, you know, I
picked up different things from

472
00:24:29,000 --> 00:24:30,280
my mom and different things from
my dad.

473
00:24:30,280 --> 00:24:32,960
So my dad is definitely the
storyteller and definitely the

474
00:24:32,960 --> 00:24:36,080
vision painter.
And then my mom is just an

475
00:24:36,080 --> 00:24:38,720
execution machine.
Like she's so good at research.

476
00:24:39,280 --> 00:24:41,760
She's so good at like crossing
the TS and dotting the IS.

477
00:24:41,760 --> 00:24:43,040
And they're a very good
partnership.

478
00:24:43,040 --> 00:24:45,440
And you know, they built their
business together as well.

479
00:24:45,880 --> 00:24:51,160
And I think that among the kids
who we benefited in picking up

480
00:24:51,160 --> 00:24:56,240
the best of both worlds.
And you don't there's negative

481
00:24:56,240 --> 00:24:59,240
sides to like, I think, I think
everybody in my family has ADHD

482
00:25:00,280 --> 00:25:07,680
and we learn how to mitigate it.
And the nice thing is you learn

483
00:25:07,680 --> 00:25:10,000
from each other the tricks that
each person has.

484
00:25:10,120 --> 00:25:12,440
Sure.
And so that's been super.

485
00:25:12,440 --> 00:25:13,960
And so, so that's the other
thing.

486
00:25:13,960 --> 00:25:16,640
So if we talk about culture, let
me give you family culture.

487
00:25:16,680 --> 00:25:21,480
Yeah, you're right.
Family as a team is 100% there.

488
00:25:21,800 --> 00:25:23,920
And one of the places where you
would see it the most is in

489
00:25:23,920 --> 00:25:27,040
college applications.
So we have obviously a large

490
00:25:27,040 --> 00:25:28,480
dining room table to fit all the
family.

491
00:25:29,240 --> 00:25:31,920
And when I was applying to
college, we didn't know what

492
00:25:31,920 --> 00:25:33,320
schools existed in the United
States.

493
00:25:33,320 --> 00:25:35,040
We knew about Harvard, we knew
about Stanford, we knew about

494
00:25:35,040 --> 00:25:38,480
MIT, but that was about it.
I end up at Brown randomly

495
00:25:38,760 --> 00:25:41,800
because I realized that it was a
lottery at the end of the day.

496
00:25:42,120 --> 00:25:43,960
And how do you win a lottery?
You brute force it.

497
00:25:43,960 --> 00:25:46,640
You just buy a lot of tickets.
So I applied to 26 schools, and

498
00:25:46,640 --> 00:25:48,480
Brown was just another school on
the list.

499
00:25:49,680 --> 00:25:51,640
And my mom really helped me in
the process.

500
00:25:51,640 --> 00:25:54,400
But my siblings were too young
to help me, and my dad was

501
00:25:54,400 --> 00:25:56,360
working.
I did.

502
00:25:56,360 --> 00:25:58,400
I got lucky.
I ended up at Brown with the

503
00:25:58,400 --> 00:26:00,160
rest of the kids.
We'd gone through the gauntlet

504
00:26:00,160 --> 00:26:02,760
once we knew what was going on
and I could help.

505
00:26:03,280 --> 00:26:06,120
So I was very involved.
And then I remember with Alex,

506
00:26:08,120 --> 00:26:11,240
we all sat at the dining room
table and would read all of her

507
00:26:11,400 --> 00:26:13,840
essays for all the school shit.
But as a family.

508
00:26:13,920 --> 00:26:16,240
And you have notes here with red
marker.

509
00:26:16,240 --> 00:26:18,440
When my dad would mark it up, I
would mark it up.

510
00:26:18,440 --> 00:26:20,040
My mom would mark it up.
Tyler would mark it up.

511
00:26:20,320 --> 00:26:22,400
Each of us would submit a
version of like, what we thought

512
00:26:22,400 --> 00:26:23,720
would be the best essay that we
get her in.

513
00:26:23,720 --> 00:26:27,600
And then Geffen, now we had all
Tyler, Alex, Cliff, mom and dad.

514
00:26:28,760 --> 00:26:29,360
You have.
Yeah.

515
00:26:29,360 --> 00:26:31,200
Six people are now working on
this college application

516
00:26:31,200 --> 00:26:34,680
together.
And it's Thanksgiving is the the

517
00:26:34,800 --> 00:26:37,040
school vacation before college
applications are due for early

518
00:26:37,040 --> 00:26:39,840
decision.
All of Thanksgiving for five

519
00:26:39,840 --> 00:26:41,920
years was dedicated to college
applications in the Weisman

520
00:26:41,920 --> 00:26:43,920
household.
And it was not the one person.

521
00:26:44,120 --> 00:26:45,920
No, it's not like you are
applying to college alone.

522
00:26:46,000 --> 00:26:48,240
The entire family is applying to
college for this person.

523
00:26:48,720 --> 00:26:50,920
I love that.
That's that's the imagery is

524
00:26:50,920 --> 00:26:53,000
amazing there.
It's like there's something

525
00:26:53,000 --> 00:26:57,040
about everyone figuring it out
together versus the parents

526
00:26:57,040 --> 00:27:00,240
having the answers and the
children not like everybody

527
00:27:00,400 --> 00:27:04,360
driving in the same direction
towards discovery, yes.

528
00:27:04,760 --> 00:27:07,720
And it sounds like you all have
beneficial and positive ways of

529
00:27:07,720 --> 00:27:09,720
interacting.
You mentioned that your father

530
00:27:09,720 --> 00:27:13,320
was the arbiter, but what other
kind of rituals or routines did

531
00:27:13,320 --> 00:27:15,320
you have around rupture and
repair?

532
00:27:15,320 --> 00:27:18,000
There's a lot you can speak
about South Tyler.

533
00:27:18,240 --> 00:27:22,840
Yes, hero of the day.
I have a great auditory memory.

534
00:27:23,080 --> 00:27:24,960
Tyler's memory is just
absolutely absurd.

535
00:27:25,080 --> 00:27:26,920
Like if I give him my credit
card, you will have the number

536
00:27:26,920 --> 00:27:29,080
of memorized for the rest of his
life.

537
00:27:29,080 --> 00:27:30,840
And so if there is.
Yeah, good.

538
00:27:31,840 --> 00:27:33,520
Except I trust him in my life.
Yeah, exactly.

539
00:27:33,920 --> 00:27:39,600
If there is a argument around,
he said, she said Tyler will

540
00:27:39,600 --> 00:27:41,880
just tell us what was said.
It's like there's literally

541
00:27:41,880 --> 00:27:44,240
there was a camera in the room.
He's the limitless pin before

542
00:27:44,240 --> 00:27:45,240
the limitless pin.
There you.

543
00:27:45,680 --> 00:27:47,600
Go.
And so like if him and I are

544
00:27:47,600 --> 00:27:50,600
having a argument about like,
and I claim I said this and he

545
00:27:50,600 --> 00:27:53,960
claims I said that, I trust him
about what I said more than I

546
00:27:53,960 --> 00:27:58,560
trust myself.
And like, I'm happy to, like,

547
00:27:58,720 --> 00:28:02,560
yield to that conclusion.
That's one.

548
00:28:02,600 --> 00:28:05,320
Two people have different
strengths.

549
00:28:05,600 --> 00:28:09,120
So when it's needed to interface
with someone outside the family

550
00:28:09,240 --> 00:28:12,760
and like, get to someone, my mom
will message me or Alex will

551
00:28:12,760 --> 00:28:15,120
message me and I'll go and find
the person because I'm good at,

552
00:28:15,120 --> 00:28:18,160
like, outreach.
Alex is actually really, really

553
00:28:18,160 --> 00:28:21,320
good at research, like my mom.
And so often there'll be like a

554
00:28:21,320 --> 00:28:24,400
specific scientific problem that
I can't figure out and we'll

555
00:28:24,400 --> 00:28:26,360
just like, assign it to Alex and
she'll go and do it and she'll

556
00:28:26,360 --> 00:28:29,800
come back with a solution.
Geffen has the best taste and

557
00:28:29,800 --> 00:28:32,320
she's very graceful and she has
very good soft power.

558
00:28:32,320 --> 00:28:34,560
And so like, sometimes we'll
send Geffen, Geffen as the

559
00:28:34,560 --> 00:28:37,680
fixer.
And so like, we know, we, we,

560
00:28:37,680 --> 00:28:40,720
it's like, you know, a soccer
team, the different people have

561
00:28:40,720 --> 00:28:42,680
different strengths.
You, you send in the right agent

562
00:28:42,680 --> 00:28:47,800
for the right 'cause Tyler and I
work together.

563
00:28:48,600 --> 00:28:50,200
We almost never signed
contracts.

564
00:28:50,600 --> 00:28:54,720
We make a video selfie video
with both of us in the shot and

565
00:28:54,720 --> 00:28:57,600
we send it to our each other, to
our chat on WhatsApp.

566
00:28:58,240 --> 00:29:00,560
And we know that if there's a
disagreement later, we'll show

567
00:29:00,560 --> 00:29:03,120
the video to our dad and he will
decide what is the outcome of

568
00:29:03,120 --> 00:29:07,240
it.
And like that allows for such

569
00:29:07,240 --> 00:29:10,600
high speed too of like making
deals and decision making

570
00:29:10,600 --> 00:29:12,200
between each other.
It's like, actually incredible.

571
00:29:12,320 --> 00:29:15,080
Yeah, the blind passes are real.
Like one of my best friends from

572
00:29:15,080 --> 00:29:18,360
college is a twin and she was
she and her twin were incredible

573
00:29:18,360 --> 00:29:20,960
at basketball because the blind
passes.

574
00:29:21,240 --> 00:29:23,360
I mean, they're and it's not
just with twins, right?

575
00:29:23,360 --> 00:29:26,760
It's really, I think when you
have these years of alignment

576
00:29:26,760 --> 00:29:29,880
and shared values and you know,
I bet you know things about

577
00:29:29,880 --> 00:29:32,960
Tyler that maybe aren't the most
shiny things.

578
00:29:32,960 --> 00:29:34,040
That you like.
Right.

579
00:29:34,040 --> 00:29:38,440
And so it's, it's, it's really
easy to humanize people when you

580
00:29:38,440 --> 00:29:41,520
know what the inside of their
bathroom looks like, right?

581
00:29:41,520 --> 00:29:44,360
100% I mean, I'll give you like
Tyler can't pack for his life.

582
00:29:44,440 --> 00:29:46,560
I'm also not very good at
packing, but I'm better than

583
00:29:46,560 --> 00:29:48,520
Tyler.
And so like, if we're going

584
00:29:48,520 --> 00:29:50,840
somewhere, I don't even bother
to try and convince it.

585
00:29:50,880 --> 00:29:52,760
I just pack for him and there we
go.

586
00:29:52,760 --> 00:29:58,200
He's got a bag, let's go.
And you know, we, we know.

587
00:29:58,400 --> 00:30:00,560
So that's the other thing.
We know what the other people's

588
00:30:00,560 --> 00:30:02,160
weaknesses are.
And we also mitigate for the

589
00:30:02,160 --> 00:30:07,720
weaknesses very, very often.
And again, we get to do this

590
00:30:07,720 --> 00:30:11,840
more because we work together.
But even if and so that just

591
00:30:11,840 --> 00:30:16,200
like multiplies it even more and
like it's very proactive.

592
00:30:17,600 --> 00:30:20,920
The other day Tyler filed taxes
for something for me and he just

593
00:30:20,920 --> 00:30:22,600
messaged me to say he filed my
taxes.

594
00:30:23,760 --> 00:30:25,200
Thank you.
How?

595
00:30:25,360 --> 00:30:25,960
Great.
Is that?

596
00:30:25,960 --> 00:30:27,480
That's incredible.
And you know it's.

597
00:30:27,880 --> 00:30:29,320
It's a true superpower.
And you?

598
00:30:29,360 --> 00:30:29,960
Really.
Exactly.

599
00:30:29,960 --> 00:30:32,560
There was a point where, like,
Tyler was very interested in

600
00:30:33,000 --> 00:30:34,760
figuring out this one specific
fitness thing.

601
00:30:35,160 --> 00:30:38,120
And I just took it upon myself
to solve that thing for him.

602
00:30:38,120 --> 00:30:44,320
And like, it got solved.
And it's people talk about AI

603
00:30:44,320 --> 00:30:46,960
agents all the time.
It's having a a real agent in

604
00:30:46,960 --> 00:30:49,080
the real world who has full
context of you.

605
00:30:49,400 --> 00:30:52,240
They might even have access to
your bed and your mailbox and

606
00:30:52,240 --> 00:30:54,200
everything else.
And we just share so many

607
00:30:54,200 --> 00:30:56,200
resources.
And once we build a playbook for

608
00:30:56,200 --> 00:30:58,800
something, that playbook is not
accessible to the entire family

609
00:30:58,800 --> 00:31:00,800
very easily.
And it's such this family, we

610
00:31:00,800 --> 00:31:03,360
have a lot of friends who are
basically like family are.

611
00:31:03,840 --> 00:31:07,040
And it translates there as well.
Yeah.

612
00:31:07,520 --> 00:31:10,960
What's going to happen when some
of and when you and some of your

613
00:31:10,960 --> 00:31:12,760
siblings have families of your
own?

614
00:31:13,400 --> 00:31:16,880
So how do you see that working?
So I think we want to make it as

615
00:31:16,880 --> 00:31:18,840
integrated as possible.
So the dream is to have a

616
00:31:18,840 --> 00:31:20,520
cul-de-sac.
We've got 7 houses.

617
00:31:20,520 --> 00:31:24,560
I love this and everyone's got a
place and I'm very confident

618
00:31:24,560 --> 00:31:29,160
that that will end up happening.
I would love to have kids around

619
00:31:29,160 --> 00:31:32,040
the same time too.
And so then, you know, we can

620
00:31:32,040 --> 00:31:35,760
even set up home school in a way
that is more advantageous for us

621
00:31:35,760 --> 00:31:38,000
and build all these resources
that are shared.

622
00:31:40,360 --> 00:31:43,240
And I think that just like
there's just so much trust

623
00:31:43,480 --> 00:31:49,280
between me and my siblings that
it allows for a lot of a lot of

624
00:31:49,280 --> 00:31:51,800
thoughtfulness and a lot of time
saving and a lot of joy.

625
00:31:52,840 --> 00:31:54,880
And then obviously there's a lot
of challenges too.

626
00:31:54,880 --> 00:31:57,880
Like there isn't every single
family and people have

627
00:31:57,880 --> 00:32:00,240
disagreements and they fight and
they can't, you know, align on

628
00:32:00,240 --> 00:32:02,000
things.
But I think that the other thing

629
00:32:02,000 --> 00:32:03,680
is we're very good at
communicating.

630
00:32:03,680 --> 00:32:06,560
We never say and never in the
history of my family do I

631
00:32:06,560 --> 00:32:08,880
remember someone saying
something with the intense to

632
00:32:08,880 --> 00:32:10,640
hurt the other person.
It just does not happen.

633
00:32:11,320 --> 00:32:13,960
Also, I can't recall a time when
someone lied.

634
00:32:14,400 --> 00:32:16,680
There's deception is like just
not, not a thing.

635
00:32:17,160 --> 00:32:21,560
And we over communicate with
each other and you know, we hug,

636
00:32:21,560 --> 00:32:23,640
we kiss, we, we get mad at each
other too.

637
00:32:23,640 --> 00:32:29,400
We're very loud and I so I'll
give you like challenges in our,

638
00:32:29,640 --> 00:32:33,200
our family.
I between the ages of like 20

639
00:32:33,200 --> 00:32:37,400
and 22, really struggled
communicating with my dad

640
00:32:38,000 --> 00:32:39,880
because like he was the only
person in my life who thought he

641
00:32:39,880 --> 00:32:43,680
could tell me what to do and he
really would like triggered me.

642
00:32:44,160 --> 00:32:47,360
And I was doing this thing
called CLG Conscious Leadership

643
00:32:47,360 --> 00:32:51,200
Group was like a leadership
development thing for CEOs.

644
00:32:51,640 --> 00:32:54,240
And I bought an extra ticket and
I took my dad and I was like,

645
00:32:54,240 --> 00:32:59,400
maybe we can solve this problem.
And he did not lean into the

646
00:32:59,400 --> 00:33:02,160
philosophy that they were
teaching, but he was, he thought

647
00:33:02,160 --> 00:33:04,920
to himself, wow, if Cliff is
willing to buy me a ticket to

648
00:33:04,920 --> 00:33:07,720
this event to take me on a 2 day
thing like it probably is really

649
00:33:07,720 --> 00:33:08,960
bothering him.
So let's figure out.

650
00:33:08,960 --> 00:33:11,400
So we figured out a system on
between us how to fix it and we

651
00:33:11,400 --> 00:33:14,560
fixed it and it improved our
relationship a lot.

652
00:33:15,400 --> 00:33:18,960
And even now sometimes I'll get
into fights with my dad and I'll

653
00:33:18,960 --> 00:33:22,280
call Tyler and he'll he'll be
the mediator now between me and

654
00:33:22,280 --> 00:33:30,120
my dad and I.
I think that it's rare in life

655
00:33:31,320 --> 00:33:36,320
to have relationships that are
not one-on-one, but four people,

656
00:33:36,320 --> 00:33:38,840
five people, six people in
relationship with each other.

657
00:33:40,320 --> 00:33:44,520
Typically when you have groups
of people in relationship, it's

658
00:33:44,520 --> 00:33:47,360
a team.
So there's a coach or it's a

659
00:33:47,360 --> 00:33:49,200
company, so there's ACEO or a
board.

660
00:33:50,360 --> 00:33:52,760
In this case, let's call on my
parents, the CEO or the board.

661
00:33:52,880 --> 00:33:55,920
But now we're talking about a
group of adults, and it's a

662
00:33:55,920 --> 00:33:58,480
group of adults where the energy
levels are also different.

663
00:33:58,480 --> 00:34:01,720
I have a lot more energy than my
parents do, and Alex has more

664
00:34:01,720 --> 00:34:03,720
energy than my parents do.
And we're running around the

665
00:34:03,720 --> 00:34:06,160
world, and we're living in
different cities, and we're

666
00:34:06,160 --> 00:34:09,040
flying like every week someone's
in a different country.

667
00:34:11,520 --> 00:34:15,480
Oh, this is another great 1.
So sometimes there's a moment of

668
00:34:15,480 --> 00:34:18,400
crisis.
For example, when I was 19,

669
00:34:18,400 --> 00:34:21,320
someone stole my laptop or
someone steals Alex's phone or

670
00:34:22,440 --> 00:34:27,920
my parents become like HQ and my
dad is just, you know, Houston.

671
00:34:28,239 --> 00:34:30,920
We have a problem reporting.
He'll stay up to like 3 in the

672
00:34:30,920 --> 00:34:32,320
morning.
He's like super on top of it.

673
00:34:32,480 --> 00:34:35,679
My dad is the most reachable
person on the phone to an

674
00:34:35,679 --> 00:34:37,920
annoying degree.
If I'm on the phone with him and

675
00:34:37,920 --> 00:34:39,639
I'm talking to him about
something important and Tyler

676
00:34:39,639 --> 00:34:42,280
calls, he will pick up from
Tyler 'cause Tyler's call.

677
00:34:44,000 --> 00:34:45,920
But he's just so invested.
He's so interested and he'll

678
00:34:45,920 --> 00:34:48,840
stay up with you and he cares so
much.

679
00:34:49,199 --> 00:34:51,239
So that's the other thing is my
dad is definitely the backstop.

680
00:34:51,280 --> 00:34:55,760
Like he believes in us so much,
like blind faith and that belief

681
00:34:55,760 --> 00:34:58,280
in US translates to belief in
ourselves.

682
00:34:59,280 --> 00:35:02,480
And I think all those things fit
together very nicely for us.

683
00:35:03,840 --> 00:35:06,600
And by the way, I, I sound like
I'm painting a very rosy

684
00:35:06,600 --> 00:35:08,360
picture.
I want to emphasize again,

685
00:35:08,560 --> 00:35:11,480
there's fights.
There's like any other family

686
00:35:11,480 --> 00:35:14,920
dynamics, but we also have nice
things that work out for us.

687
00:35:15,000 --> 00:35:16,920
Sure, but you also have a
system, it sounds like.

688
00:35:16,920 --> 00:35:18,520
Yeah, there's AI mean, that's
the thing, right?

689
00:35:18,520 --> 00:35:21,520
Like we know that in Family
leadership today we talk about a

690
00:35:21,520 --> 00:35:23,720
lot about rupture and repair,
right?

691
00:35:23,720 --> 00:35:26,720
And so for us, we have a
framework that we leverage from

692
00:35:26,720 --> 00:35:30,360
the kids schools called heart
repair, which is essentially kid

693
00:35:30,360 --> 00:35:32,360
version of non violent
communication.

694
00:35:32,760 --> 00:35:36,680
But it's a great way of creating
accountability and respect for

695
00:35:36,680 --> 00:35:37,600
one another.
Yeah.

696
00:35:37,720 --> 00:35:40,360
And so I don't think that
there's any fight we can't come

697
00:35:40,360 --> 00:35:44,080
back from inside of our family
because we have a way of working

698
00:35:44,080 --> 00:35:45,360
through it.
Yeah, and you know that

699
00:35:45,360 --> 00:35:47,760
everybody has each other's best
interest as heart.

700
00:35:48,280 --> 00:35:50,560
At the end of the day, yeah,
which is something I love

701
00:35:50,560 --> 00:35:53,280
hearing like your dad is the
storyteller in the vision setter

702
00:35:53,560 --> 00:35:56,480
as well as like your hero and
your mom is the researcher.

703
00:35:56,480 --> 00:35:58,960
And it sounds like so much
support was given.

704
00:35:59,240 --> 00:36:02,560
You know, we're about 5 months
into this journey now and to me,

705
00:36:02,560 --> 00:36:05,560
but keep what I keep going back
to is this 3 legged stool that

706
00:36:05,560 --> 00:36:07,920
partially comes from like Gregg
Popovich, who's like a famous

707
00:36:07,920 --> 00:36:10,240
NBA coach.
His his belonging cues as well.

708
00:36:10,240 --> 00:36:14,120
It's this high standards, high
support and big picture

709
00:36:14,120 --> 00:36:17,000
perspective.
And so I would love to hear from

710
00:36:17,000 --> 00:36:20,480
you a bit more about about the
standards that they set in your

711
00:36:20,480 --> 00:36:23,000
family.
Yeah, I don't think that even

712
00:36:23,000 --> 00:36:26,080
the most internally driven kids
in the world like had to have

713
00:36:26,080 --> 00:36:28,080
seen it modeled somewhere.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

714
00:36:28,080 --> 00:36:29,960
That's very high standards.
How did they?

715
00:36:30,240 --> 00:36:32,520
How did they embody them?
How did they make them real?

716
00:36:33,000 --> 00:36:35,160
I'll give you what comes to mind
first, as opposed to how they

717
00:36:35,160 --> 00:36:37,520
embody them.
OK, so my parents rarely looked

718
00:36:37,520 --> 00:36:40,320
at my report cards.
Yeah, but my dad was interested

719
00:36:40,320 --> 00:36:44,120
to see the results in our math
tests and we wanted to show him

720
00:36:44,120 --> 00:36:48,160
our math tests and the the funny
line that we always joke, right?

721
00:36:48,160 --> 00:36:52,360
It's like, you know, Indian,
Asian and Jewish families, you

722
00:36:52,360 --> 00:36:56,840
give you bring home a math exam,
we scored 99 out of 100 and dad

723
00:36:56,840 --> 00:37:00,840
goes why not 100?
And so that is that is the

724
00:37:00,840 --> 00:37:03,240
classic.
I don't know why it's response

725
00:37:03,480 --> 00:37:07,680
to a math test.
And I remember I was doing the

726
00:37:07,680 --> 00:37:15,400
PSAT practice SAT and I did the
practice SAT like 8 times and I

727
00:37:15,680 --> 00:37:19,560
would spam these tests and even
the SAT itself, I did I think 4

728
00:37:19,560 --> 00:37:23,800
times and all four times I got a
790 out of 800, which means I

729
00:37:23,800 --> 00:37:27,840
missed one question and I kept
retaking the the whole whole day

730
00:37:27,840 --> 00:37:31,280
test just because I wanted to
get that like the last question

731
00:37:31,280 --> 00:37:36,800
of the math test, right.
And but it was always said in a

732
00:37:36,800 --> 00:37:39,480
way that is like kind of, it's
not joking, but it's half joking

733
00:37:39,640 --> 00:37:43,440
and very loving.
It's definitely not, Oh my God,

734
00:37:43,440 --> 00:37:46,000
you have disappointed your
family heritage by getting this

735
00:37:46,160 --> 00:37:48,840
input right.
It's just like, you know, cheeky

736
00:37:48,840 --> 00:37:51,080
challenge that your dad is
throwing out like you want you

737
00:37:51,080 --> 00:37:54,880
want to hit it.
Another great example is, you

738
00:37:54,880 --> 00:37:57,880
know, we moved to the United
States and we had a American

739
00:37:57,880 --> 00:37:59,600
history class with his
professor, Mr. Bloom.

740
00:38:00,120 --> 00:38:05,600
And I couldn't read the book and
I couldn't touch type and I

741
00:38:05,600 --> 00:38:09,240
couldn't spell.
And I went to the teacher and I

742
00:38:09,240 --> 00:38:12,440
was like, listen, Mr. Bloom,
there's no way that I can read

743
00:38:12,440 --> 00:38:15,120
this chapter.
I found an audio book of this.

744
00:38:15,120 --> 00:38:17,400
Can I listen to it?
And I come 15 minutes early in

745
00:38:17,400 --> 00:38:20,280
class, and I tell you a summary.
And he said yes.

746
00:38:21,360 --> 00:38:24,680
And I got lucky.
That was the only textbook I

747
00:38:24,680 --> 00:38:26,160
think I ever had that had an
audio book.

748
00:38:26,160 --> 00:38:28,560
But for everything else, my mom
read the book or my dad read the

749
00:38:28,560 --> 00:38:31,520
book.
This is your point of support?

750
00:38:31,600 --> 00:38:34,880
Like, they're the backstop.
They put me on their back and

751
00:38:34,880 --> 00:38:36,640
carried me to the end zone when
I couldn't do it on my own.

752
00:38:37,760 --> 00:38:41,120
And then as it relates to
personal growth, like I saw my

753
00:38:41,120 --> 00:38:43,920
dad get up, go to work, come
back home late, had a team that

754
00:38:43,920 --> 00:38:47,280
he was leading and you know,
he'd wear a white shirt all the

755
00:38:47,280 --> 00:38:49,360
time.
And I was like, oh, that's means

756
00:38:49,360 --> 00:38:54,480
something to me as a as a child.
And my mom's number one

757
00:38:54,480 --> 00:38:55,920
priority.
And my dad's number one priority

758
00:38:55,920 --> 00:38:59,400
was always us.
There was, there was never, you

759
00:38:59,400 --> 00:39:01,880
see in movies, families where
the dad is going out and he's

760
00:39:02,280 --> 00:39:06,240
gambling or he's going to
brothels or, you know, the mom

761
00:39:06,240 --> 00:39:08,520
doesn't care about the kids.
She's like, you know, throwing

762
00:39:08,520 --> 00:39:12,480
shoes at them and she's just
watching TVI don't remember my

763
00:39:12,480 --> 00:39:14,480
parents except for like watching
the news.

764
00:39:14,480 --> 00:39:16,480
I don't remember my parents
sitting and watching TV.

765
00:39:16,680 --> 00:39:19,160
Like that just wasn't the thing.
If they watched a movie, they

766
00:39:19,160 --> 00:39:21,000
watched a movie as a family.
They'd take a movie that they

767
00:39:21,000 --> 00:39:22,640
thought that we would enjoy.
Often it was a movie they

768
00:39:22,640 --> 00:39:24,920
already saw before.
They danced with us.

769
00:39:24,920 --> 00:39:26,960
You know, they'd make healthy
food.

770
00:39:27,160 --> 00:39:29,480
We'd go on drives together as a
family.

771
00:39:31,600 --> 00:39:33,800
There are things that I consider
virtuous and things that I

772
00:39:33,800 --> 00:39:37,240
consider anti virtuous.
There are very few anti virtuous

773
00:39:37,240 --> 00:39:40,400
things that I saw my parents do
my entire childhood or even

774
00:39:40,400 --> 00:39:42,240
today.
The closest one is going to

775
00:39:42,240 --> 00:39:44,800
sleep late in the way that is
like, you know, unreasonable or

776
00:39:44,800 --> 00:39:47,320
addiction to social media.
On my dad's side, my mom was

777
00:39:47,320 --> 00:39:57,120
pretty virtuous through through.
And I think that, oh, so when I

778
00:39:57,120 --> 00:40:00,400
couldn't figure out the whole
reading thing and I was like,

779
00:40:00,400 --> 00:40:02,200
Cliff, stop being lazy.
My parents thought that I was

780
00:40:02,280 --> 00:40:04,680
lazy.
My teachers thought I was slow.

781
00:40:04,680 --> 00:40:06,240
I thought I was awesome.
I should defund.

782
00:40:06,240 --> 00:40:08,080
I would prove to people.
And my dad helped me figure that

783
00:40:08,080 --> 00:40:11,120
out.
But I really did not really

784
00:40:11,120 --> 00:40:14,200
perceived as lazy.
That was like the worst insults

785
00:40:14,200 --> 00:40:15,760
you could throw out.
It's being lazy.

786
00:40:18,080 --> 00:40:21,280
And my parents were always
pneumatic and engaged and, you

787
00:40:21,320 --> 00:40:23,800
know, proactive.
And I think that that was the

788
00:40:23,800 --> 00:40:25,240
case for the kids in my family,
too.

789
00:40:25,240 --> 00:40:27,360
Like Tyler threw himself to
computer science because it was

790
00:40:27,360 --> 00:40:29,680
fun to do.
It was like a video game for

791
00:40:29,680 --> 00:40:31,560
him.
I remember my dad was very anti

792
00:40:31,560 --> 00:40:33,960
US playing video games.
Tyler still played video games,

793
00:40:34,720 --> 00:40:37,080
but we minimized the level of
video game addiction.

794
00:40:37,080 --> 00:40:38,080
There was no video game
addiction.

795
00:40:38,080 --> 00:40:39,200
There was a video game enjoying
it.

796
00:40:39,200 --> 00:40:48,040
I think that we, we also, you
know, had limited TV time and my

797
00:40:48,040 --> 00:40:50,080
parents really encouraged us to
go outside and play with other

798
00:40:50,080 --> 00:40:54,440
kids.
So there was good guidance about

799
00:40:54,440 --> 00:40:56,000
what was good to do with your
time.

800
00:40:56,320 --> 00:40:58,960
A lot of it was related to time.
Well, what's good to do with

801
00:40:58,960 --> 00:41:00,080
your time?
What's not good to do with your

802
00:41:00,080 --> 00:41:02,720
time?
And also how to treat each other

803
00:41:02,760 --> 00:41:05,560
right, You know, be kind to your
siblings and other people.

804
00:41:07,160 --> 00:41:10,600
And also, you see it in the way
that my parents were interacting

805
00:41:10,600 --> 00:41:12,440
with other people they'd
interact with in the good way.

806
00:41:12,800 --> 00:41:14,160
And let's say we're gonna go to
a movie.

807
00:41:14,560 --> 00:41:16,920
And I was like, all right, 8
year old Cliff.

808
00:41:17,360 --> 00:41:20,440
The movie costs $8 and there's
seven people in the family, so

809
00:41:20,440 --> 00:41:21,560
it's good.
And and then we're gonna buy

810
00:41:21,560 --> 00:41:23,880
popcorn and we're gonna drive.
And the gas cost this.

811
00:41:23,880 --> 00:41:26,080
So like, OK, the cost of going
to the movie is this.

812
00:41:26,400 --> 00:41:29,160
And I'm like, it's so expensive
to go to the movies.

813
00:41:29,560 --> 00:41:31,760
So I never asked to go to the
movies because I knew that it

814
00:41:31,760 --> 00:41:34,720
was very unreasonably expensive
to take that many kids.

815
00:41:35,040 --> 00:41:39,080
And I never as a child recall
being like, all these families

816
00:41:39,080 --> 00:41:41,360
are going on vacation and we're
not going on vacation because I

817
00:41:41,480 --> 00:41:44,480
I knew how much a ticket to a
blank cost and how would it cost

818
00:41:44,480 --> 00:41:46,480
to rent a hotel.
And like, we went on a couple of

819
00:41:46,480 --> 00:41:51,640
vacations, maybe to my entire
childhood and, but we'd get in

820
00:41:51,640 --> 00:41:54,120
the car, we'd drive to like a
tent and we'd like camp

821
00:41:54,120 --> 00:41:56,840
somewhere or we'd go to like a
river or, you know, go to the

822
00:41:56,840 --> 00:42:00,400
museum or go to like the local
park.

823
00:42:00,400 --> 00:42:04,720
Because, you know, I got to
understand money and valued

824
00:42:04,720 --> 00:42:08,840
money as a, as a kid.
And I think that to a degree

825
00:42:08,840 --> 00:42:10,160
that probably made me too
frugal.

826
00:42:11,000 --> 00:42:12,200
Even today, I carry that
through.

827
00:42:12,760 --> 00:42:15,920
And, but it also protects the
downside very much.

828
00:42:16,640 --> 00:42:21,280
And I, I think that we just saw
how my parents operate and they

829
00:42:21,280 --> 00:42:23,760
treated us like adults and they
talk to us like we were adults.

830
00:42:24,760 --> 00:42:29,000
I would even get into fights
with nannies because they would

831
00:42:29,280 --> 00:42:30,760
want us to do things that cost
money.

832
00:42:30,760 --> 00:42:33,080
And I was like, whoa, whoa,
whoa, whoa, whoa.

833
00:42:33,080 --> 00:42:35,640
We're not going to the movies.
Do you know how much the movies

834
00:42:35,640 --> 00:42:37,720
cost?
That's great.

835
00:42:37,720 --> 00:42:41,080
So, you know, I, I think that
that was the, and I remember I,

836
00:42:41,080 --> 00:42:45,000
I, I drove off some nannies
because my youngest brother did

837
00:42:45,000 --> 00:42:46,960
something and they wanted to
punish him and they made him sit

838
00:42:46,960 --> 00:42:48,160
in the corner.
I was like, all right, that's

839
00:42:48,160 --> 00:42:49,280
like enough time.
Sit in the corner.

840
00:42:49,280 --> 00:42:51,000
Like, and they're like, no, he
has sit in the corner.

841
00:42:51,000 --> 00:42:52,760
It's like, no, Eric's get up,
you know, he's sit in the corner

842
00:42:53,040 --> 00:42:56,560
and like, I get into a fight.
So what is this?

843
00:42:56,640 --> 00:42:58,640
Sounds like our oldest daughter.
Oh yeah, yeah.

844
00:42:58,720 --> 00:43:03,480
And like, the nanny left, like
she couldn't deal with it and

845
00:43:03,480 --> 00:43:05,680
she called up parents.
Like your children are so

846
00:43:05,680 --> 00:43:08,000
misbehaved and they're like,
they're not.

847
00:43:11,400 --> 00:43:15,680
And I think that also it was
very important for our parents,

848
00:43:15,680 --> 00:43:18,440
so we take care of each other.
And so that was always the case.

849
00:43:19,840 --> 00:43:22,400
That's great.
Greg, you asked a very important

850
00:43:22,400 --> 00:43:25,320
question that I definitely
avoided, which is talking about

851
00:43:25,320 --> 00:43:28,320
the pain of not having friends
when you were a kid.

852
00:43:28,800 --> 00:43:31,120
And so you talked about the
ocean solution, ocean analogy.

853
00:43:31,120 --> 00:43:32,960
Imagine you're going
wakeboarding.

854
00:43:33,440 --> 00:43:34,560
There's two ways of
wakeboarding.

855
00:43:34,920 --> 00:43:37,800
The first one is you smooth over
the surface really easily.

856
00:43:38,040 --> 00:43:39,360
The second one is you're in the
water.

857
00:43:39,360 --> 00:43:41,000
The water is coming in your ears
like the.

858
00:43:41,000 --> 00:43:43,560
You know.
Yeah, Wave is hitting you in the

859
00:43:43,560 --> 00:43:44,720
face.
It pushes you down.

860
00:43:44,720 --> 00:43:46,600
You're almost drowning.
That's kind of like what my

861
00:43:46,600 --> 00:43:53,240
experience was like between the
ages of, you know, 4 and 19, and

862
00:43:53,240 --> 00:43:56,920
you almost forget that.
I don't remember anything from

863
00:43:56,920 --> 00:43:58,960
2nd grade.
I remember nothing from 2nd

864
00:43:58,960 --> 00:44:00,120
grade.
I have a vivid memory of

865
00:44:00,200 --> 00:44:02,360
everything else, but at a really
tough time.

866
00:44:02,360 --> 00:44:02,840
It's.
Good.

867
00:44:02,840 --> 00:44:05,280
I don't.
I think that's not uncommon.

868
00:44:05,280 --> 00:44:10,440
And so I was going to ask you,
maybe this is answering my own

869
00:44:10,440 --> 00:44:16,360
question, but the question is
who really needs to be studying

870
00:44:16,360 --> 00:44:20,920
family, culture and leadership?
And I think, well, I think it's

871
00:44:20,920 --> 00:44:26,520
everyone, but I think it's those
of us that after like really

872
00:44:26,520 --> 00:44:30,520
found our groove later in life,
I think back on a lot of the

873
00:44:30,520 --> 00:44:34,320
kids that were very popular and
like stayed put in town, you

874
00:44:34,360 --> 00:44:39,000
know, where I grew up.
And nothing against those

875
00:44:39,000 --> 00:44:43,560
choices, but that was always
very insular focused.

876
00:44:43,560 --> 00:44:45,520
Like that was always like, I
need to be here.

877
00:44:45,520 --> 00:44:47,200
I know where I belong and it's
here.

878
00:44:47,200 --> 00:44:49,400
And you could kind of see that.
And that's why they were very

879
00:44:49,400 --> 00:44:53,320
grounded and also never left.
And for people like you and I

880
00:44:53,320 --> 00:44:56,040
and and for you, we left.
Yeah.

881
00:44:56,040 --> 00:44:57,080
We got out.
Yeah.

882
00:44:57,440 --> 00:45:00,200
And getting out means like the
world is your oyster.

883
00:45:00,200 --> 00:45:03,200
Like screw those people that you
know, that left you in the past.

884
00:45:03,200 --> 00:45:08,160
Like, but at the end of the day,
family, culture and leadership

885
00:45:08,160 --> 00:45:11,160
comes back around because we
need to remember how important

886
00:45:11,160 --> 00:45:14,160
building these things are and
that people did it for us or

887
00:45:14,160 --> 00:45:17,560
didn't do it for us.
And we want it to be built in a

888
00:45:17,560 --> 00:45:20,040
different way.
Whether we had it or we didn't,

889
00:45:20,320 --> 00:45:22,440
we need to study it.
And that's kind of where I'm

890
00:45:22,440 --> 00:45:23,920
going.
So building on what you're

891
00:45:23,920 --> 00:45:26,960
saying, it's very funny.
There's all these areas of

892
00:45:26,960 --> 00:45:30,280
study, right?
And you ask, what is the meaning

893
00:45:30,280 --> 00:45:32,080
of life?
So people will say different

894
00:45:32,080 --> 00:45:33,640
things, right?
One person might say it's to be

895
00:45:33,640 --> 00:45:37,040
happy and joy.
I like the Aristotle Udemania

896
00:45:37,040 --> 00:45:39,760
definition, right?
Human thriving, they can make

897
00:45:39,760 --> 00:45:43,840
you ethics and but if you go
down any of these paths, right,

898
00:45:43,840 --> 00:45:47,680
human meaning.
I think across all religions,

899
00:45:47,680 --> 00:45:51,680
all cultures, the majority of
meaning often will come from the

900
00:45:51,680 --> 00:45:54,080
nuclear family and your
relationship with your partner

901
00:45:54,080 --> 00:45:55,120
and your relationship with your
kids.

902
00:45:55,120 --> 00:45:58,560
And I think that it's very
difficult to find a culture that

903
00:45:58,560 --> 00:46:01,080
says that that's not at least
50% of the joy that you have in

904
00:46:01,080 --> 00:46:09,720
your life back to Dostoevsky.
And there is no, with the

905
00:46:09,720 --> 00:46:11,080
exception of what you get from
religion.

906
00:46:11,080 --> 00:46:14,360
And we can talk about that in a
second standard of what does it

907
00:46:14,360 --> 00:46:17,680
mean to build a good family and
a happy family.

908
00:46:18,080 --> 00:46:22,120
Now, let me lean as the religion
aside for a second.

909
00:46:22,120 --> 00:46:24,200
It was just Yom Kippur and it's
just like the holiest day in

910
00:46:24,200 --> 00:46:28,360
Judaism, I would argue.
And I think the data shows this.

911
00:46:29,320 --> 00:46:32,680
The propensity of strong
connected nuclear families in

912
00:46:32,680 --> 00:46:36,080
Judaism is way higher than
almost any other group in the

913
00:46:36,080 --> 00:46:38,240
world.
Yeah, I think it's Judaism and

914
00:46:38,240 --> 00:46:40,240
in in the Mormon.
Community in the Mormon

915
00:46:40,240 --> 00:46:42,640
community amazing in the Mormon
community incredible in the

916
00:46:42,640 --> 00:46:44,480
Mormon community the only
problem with the Mormon

917
00:46:44,480 --> 00:46:49,160
community is and this is the
same with hasidic Jews, both

918
00:46:49,160 --> 00:46:51,840
Mormonism and hasidic Jews it's
almost too much and overbearing

919
00:46:51,840 --> 00:46:53,280
and people.
Really want to get out there

920
00:46:53,280 --> 00:46:55,200
that's polarizing.
And so, but there's a, there's a

921
00:46:55,240 --> 00:46:56,880
sweet spot in Mormonism and
Judaism.

922
00:46:56,920 --> 00:47:00,640
Great, great analogy.
I feel very, very overlapping

923
00:47:00,640 --> 00:47:04,920
sense to the moment.
And if you read all the founders

924
00:47:05,080 --> 00:47:07,960
right, we, we, we both love that
it said David Center, who is

925
00:47:08,080 --> 00:47:12,120
very close to her.
Actually he he often puts out

926
00:47:12,120 --> 00:47:15,720
right chips on shoulders, put
chips in pockets.

927
00:47:16,520 --> 00:47:18,880
And the most successful
entrepreneurs and happiest

928
00:47:18,880 --> 00:47:23,720
people often come with a dad
that is very ambitious and maybe

929
00:47:23,720 --> 00:47:26,160
wants you to prove yourself and
a mom that thinks that you can

930
00:47:26,160 --> 00:47:29,440
do no wrong.
And like, you know, the classic

931
00:47:29,440 --> 00:47:32,360
Jewish mom is the the trope of
this, right?

932
00:47:32,360 --> 00:47:35,480
We talked about Manhattan, the
Manhattan Jewish mom that thinks

933
00:47:35,480 --> 00:47:38,280
her kid is the star and the
center of the universe.

934
00:47:40,480 --> 00:47:43,800
It is so consistent and
extremely high performers to

935
00:47:43,800 --> 00:47:50,640
have a background like this.
And then also Jewish family is

936
00:47:50,640 --> 00:47:53,680
often to have more kids and the
kids have very close

937
00:47:53,680 --> 00:47:56,400
relationships with each other.
This is really like, I, I know

938
00:47:56,400 --> 00:48:02,800
very, I remember being shocked
to my core moving to America and

939
00:48:02,800 --> 00:48:07,720
seeing families where children
like curse their parents or like

940
00:48:07,720 --> 00:48:10,920
talk back to their mom in a way
that is impolite or like say

941
00:48:10,920 --> 00:48:12,960
that they hate their mom or they
hate their sibling.

942
00:48:13,040 --> 00:48:17,280
Oh my God, the idea that a child
would tell their sibling I hate

943
00:48:17,280 --> 00:48:20,000
you was the most foreign thing
in the world.

944
00:48:20,000 --> 00:48:24,000
Like my dad would lose his mind
if I told this to one of my

945
00:48:24,000 --> 00:48:25,960
siblings.
This would never happen in our

946
00:48:25,960 --> 00:48:28,400
house.
So that's definitely a cultural

947
00:48:28,400 --> 00:48:31,560
thing.
And that was like enforced with

948
00:48:31,640 --> 00:48:36,440
like ironclad.
And you sometimes see this in in

949
00:48:36,440 --> 00:48:38,360
books or in movies where you
have a leader that comes into a

950
00:48:38,360 --> 00:48:42,360
tribe and they focus in unity so
strongly and making sure that

951
00:48:42,360 --> 00:48:44,760
people are inter integrated with
each other well.

952
00:48:44,760 --> 00:48:46,440
And like those are like the most
lot of leaders.

953
00:48:48,240 --> 00:48:51,440
And so I think that that back to
your point, people don't study

954
00:48:51,440 --> 00:48:55,200
this very deeply, but if you did
study it, you would maybe find

955
00:48:55,200 --> 00:48:59,240
some magical recipe for joy and
happiness and human thriving to

956
00:48:59,240 --> 00:49:02,160
a degree that you actually can't
easily find by trying to mold

957
00:49:02,360 --> 00:49:05,960
yourself as a single entity.
And so I'll share with you a

958
00:49:05,960 --> 00:49:09,960
philosophy that I have, which
is, you know, there's a

959
00:49:09,960 --> 00:49:14,840
Darwinian theory of evolution,
survival of the fittest.

960
00:49:15,400 --> 00:49:18,560
And there is a famous study that
came out of Stanford, tit for

961
00:49:18,560 --> 00:49:21,560
tat, where if you get hit, you
hit with the equivalent force.

962
00:49:22,280 --> 00:49:25,800
And both are very interesting,
but I think that they actually

963
00:49:25,800 --> 00:49:30,520
do not yield the best outcome
for a evolutionary well lived

964
00:49:30,520 --> 00:49:34,600
life because we don't live life
as single organisms.

965
00:49:34,840 --> 00:49:39,400
We live life as in groups.
And so the second layer of

966
00:49:39,400 --> 00:49:42,640
evolution to me is evolution of
nuclear families.

967
00:49:43,480 --> 00:49:47,720
And here's the magic part.
If you face an existential risk

968
00:49:48,440 --> 00:49:52,600
and you are dying on the floor,
some will come in and defend you

969
00:49:52,840 --> 00:49:55,600
to their dying breath because
you are their family, because

970
00:49:55,600 --> 00:49:58,800
they love you unconditionally.
Yeah, which means that you get a

971
00:49:58,880 --> 00:50:01,120
second life in the video game.
Normally you would have died,

972
00:50:01,400 --> 00:50:03,880
but you get to continue.
And so when you think about

973
00:50:03,880 --> 00:50:09,040
expected ROI, the expected
benefit that comes from

974
00:50:09,040 --> 00:50:12,240
something, you go, OK, 1%
probability that this startup

975
00:50:12,240 --> 00:50:13,760
will, you know, be a billion
dollar company.

976
00:50:14,160 --> 00:50:17,120
And you know, it's, it's, it's,
you know, 1% * 100.

977
00:50:17,680 --> 00:50:21,800
But if you consider the outcome
of death, even if it's 0.1%,

978
00:50:21,800 --> 00:50:24,120
it's not a worthwhile gamble if
you ask Charlie Munger.

979
00:50:25,680 --> 00:50:29,040
And so having a group, and the
bigger that group, the better,

980
00:50:29,280 --> 00:50:32,080
where the trust in the group
that you'll have each other's

981
00:50:32,080 --> 00:50:35,640
back is unlimited, allows you to
have such a floor that's

982
00:50:35,640 --> 00:50:37,920
unbelievable.
And you just get restarts over

983
00:50:37,920 --> 00:50:41,320
and over and over again.
And the problem comes when you

984
00:50:41,320 --> 00:50:44,560
make that group too big because
you can't have unconditional

985
00:50:44,560 --> 00:50:46,120
love in a group that is too
large.

986
00:50:46,280 --> 00:50:47,800
Definitely you can't have it
more than 100.

987
00:50:48,040 --> 00:50:50,240
By the way, this is one of the
many reasons why communism

988
00:50:50,280 --> 00:50:54,560
always fails.
Great in theory, failure and

989
00:50:54,560 --> 00:51:01,160
practice in the United States,
which religion is a smaller

990
00:51:01,800 --> 00:51:04,320
peace and respect for parents is
smaller.

991
00:51:05,120 --> 00:51:10,520
You see these family units that
break and lose a lot of this

992
00:51:10,520 --> 00:51:13,720
unconditional love.
And I think that that's, you

993
00:51:13,720 --> 00:51:17,000
know, if motto for life and for
family in general.

994
00:51:17,000 --> 00:51:20,840
If you ask me, what's the 2
words for?

995
00:51:21,600 --> 00:51:23,880
I mean, one word would be love,
2 words would be unconditional

996
00:51:23,880 --> 00:51:26,080
love for family culture.
That's like the, the, the short

997
00:51:26,080 --> 00:51:30,360
of it.
And so I was, I think I was

998
00:51:30,360 --> 00:51:33,120
saying that there's two ways of
surfing.

999
00:51:33,320 --> 00:51:35,800
One is the easy way. 2 is the
hard way.

1000
00:51:36,360 --> 00:51:38,800
For those who struggled with the
surfing in the beginning for

1001
00:51:38,800 --> 00:51:44,160
years, decades, and then figured
it out, you then go, how do I

1002
00:51:44,160 --> 00:51:47,160
help my kids surf?
Easy as early as possible.

1003
00:51:47,640 --> 00:51:51,160
The problem is they're not going
to be a developed human being if

1004
00:51:51,160 --> 00:51:54,760
you give them everything.
And So what you want, and

1005
00:51:54,760 --> 00:51:57,320
there's a really great graph
that shows this in video games

1006
00:51:57,360 --> 00:51:59,240
of what does it mean to be in a
state of flow?

1007
00:51:59,240 --> 00:52:02,760
State of flow is you are facing
a challenge that is just hard

1008
00:52:02,760 --> 00:52:05,280
enough where you can deal with
it, but not too hard where

1009
00:52:05,280 --> 00:52:07,560
you're, you know, drowning under
the weight.

1010
00:52:08,280 --> 00:52:10,480
And I often think to myself,
because I was very short in high

1011
00:52:10,480 --> 00:52:12,880
school, I was like 5 foot 2
freshman year, 5 foot 3

1012
00:52:12,880 --> 00:52:19,320
sophomore year, 110 lbs.
What if I was 6 foot and 160

1013
00:52:19,320 --> 00:52:20,720
lbs?
Wow.

1014
00:52:20,720 --> 00:52:21,920
I would have had a very
different high school

1015
00:52:21,920 --> 00:52:24,440
experience, but also I would be
a totally different person

1016
00:52:24,440 --> 00:52:26,640
today.
And I think that in the long

1017
00:52:26,640 --> 00:52:28,880
term I would have been a less
happy person because I would not

1018
00:52:28,880 --> 00:52:31,480
have faced that challenge.
And then because I have been

1019
00:52:31,480 --> 00:52:35,640
very lucky over the last 10
years, I think to myself, shit,

1020
00:52:36,800 --> 00:52:38,760
am I running life on easy mode
right now?

1021
00:52:39,680 --> 00:52:42,120
And thank God I'm going to have
the opportunity to be rebirthed

1022
00:52:42,120 --> 00:52:45,480
through fatherhood and my family
because that's a whole slew of

1023
00:52:45,480 --> 00:52:47,000
problems that are a lot more
difficult.

1024
00:52:47,000 --> 00:52:49,600
And that's why there's this
desire to build up this nest egg

1025
00:52:49,600 --> 00:52:51,800
before you have kids.
But that's OK.

1026
00:52:51,840 --> 00:52:53,600
Yeah.
Like, you need that challenge.

1027
00:52:54,520 --> 00:52:56,920
And so this is an unanswered
question for me that I often

1028
00:52:56,920 --> 00:53:00,800
think about for my kids in the
future, which is do I want them

1029
00:53:00,800 --> 00:53:03,480
to be the track star athlete,
captain of the football team,

1030
00:53:03,680 --> 00:53:08,760
who wins like prom king, or do I
want them to have a more

1031
00:53:08,760 --> 00:53:11,040
difficult experience?
And I think the answer is yes, I

1032
00:53:11,040 --> 00:53:12,560
want them to have a more
difficult experience.

1033
00:53:12,760 --> 00:53:15,400
There are non obvious things in
life, like for example, when to

1034
00:53:15,400 --> 00:53:17,800
have kids, how many kids to
have, where to live with your

1035
00:53:17,800 --> 00:53:20,360
family.
But if you think about it and

1036
00:53:20,360 --> 00:53:22,040
you think about it and you think
about it and you bring in data

1037
00:53:22,040 --> 00:53:24,600
and you're bringing experience
from others, you can start to

1038
00:53:24,600 --> 00:53:27,360
converge towards paths that are
more correct than others.

1039
00:53:28,240 --> 00:53:33,520
And you guys are investing in
this exploration and this is

1040
00:53:33,520 --> 00:53:36,320
indeed a very worthwhile field
to study because it yields the

1041
00:53:36,320 --> 00:53:39,160
most joy and happiness and
satisfaction and meaning in life

1042
00:53:39,680 --> 00:53:42,920
of any field.
I would love to hear, do you

1043
00:53:42,920 --> 00:53:45,920
have a favorite family holiday
tradition or just tradition in

1044
00:53:45,920 --> 00:53:47,440
general that you could share
with us?

1045
00:53:47,720 --> 00:53:50,360
Yes.
I knew it was.

1046
00:53:50,600 --> 00:53:53,160
No, yeah, but it's totally not
what you're expecting.

1047
00:53:53,160 --> 00:53:56,440
OK, we have a song.
OK, the song goes.

1048
00:53:56,440 --> 00:54:00,320
I love it.
The song goes, hello, my name is

1049
00:54:00,320 --> 00:54:02,440
Joe.
I like to eat the peanut butter.

1050
00:54:02,440 --> 00:54:04,920
When I eat the peanut butter, my
life is amazing.

1051
00:54:04,920 --> 00:54:07,160
My life is amazing.
We have a dance that goes along

1052
00:54:07,160 --> 00:54:13,160
with the song The dance.
We go like this and we high 5

1053
00:54:13,160 --> 00:54:14,880
each other.
And so whenever there's a big

1054
00:54:14,880 --> 00:54:18,520
life event that we have,
especially me and my brother and

1055
00:54:18,520 --> 00:54:21,360
my sister, we'll sing our song
and we'll do the high fives and

1056
00:54:21,360 --> 00:54:23,520
sometimes we won't be next to
each other so we'll just call

1057
00:54:23,520 --> 00:54:25,120
each other out of the blue.
We know that this big thing

1058
00:54:25,120 --> 00:54:27,080
occurred and we won't say
anything else.

1059
00:54:27,560 --> 00:54:29,120
We'll just start singing the
song.

1060
00:54:29,120 --> 00:54:30,720
We'll sing the song together and
that's the call.

1061
00:54:30,800 --> 00:54:31,840
It's.
Incredible.

1062
00:54:31,840 --> 00:54:32,480
I love.
It Yeah.

1063
00:54:32,640 --> 00:54:33,520
Hello.
My name is Joe.

1064
00:54:33,520 --> 00:54:34,800
Celebration.
That's so good.

1065
00:54:35,160 --> 00:54:36,920
I love that.
Classic, that's so good.

1066
00:54:36,920 --> 00:54:40,040
Very classic.
That is so, so good.

1067
00:54:40,080 --> 00:54:41,960
I love.
It couldn't have asked for it.

1068
00:54:41,960 --> 00:54:43,440
Better perfect than closing
here.

1069
00:54:43,440 --> 00:54:44,680
That's right.
Amazing.

1070
00:54:44,960 --> 00:54:47,840
Thank you so, so much.
Yes, awesome.

1071
00:54:50,160 --> 00:54:52,800
Hey, guys, If you're still here,
you're definitely our kind of

1072
00:54:52,800 --> 00:54:55,000
person.
Thanks for spending this time

1073
00:54:55,000 --> 00:54:56,600
with us on The Most Important
Thing.

1074
00:54:57,440 --> 00:55:00,520
If this episode resonated with
you, we'd love for you to follow

1075
00:55:00,520 --> 00:55:02,880
us wherever you get your
podcasts and share it with

1076
00:55:02,880 --> 00:55:04,640
someone else.
Building family culture on

1077
00:55:04,640 --> 00:55:05,200
purpose.